A step toward understanding Bloat

[ExReefer]

I had some serious issues with a wild caught group not to long ago. All 24 of them died one by one. They stopped eating and it went downhill from there regardless of what I did to try to stop it. I used Metro, Epsom Salt, and even tried Kanamycin. I agree with this thread in that bloat is really an internal bacterial infection. I don't believe it is realated to parasites in any way. I also strongly believe that it can rarely be reversed which is very upsetting. Once a troph stops eating, it will typically die. I've never experienced anything like this in my 30 years of fishkeeping. I have even kept wild caught Altum Angelfish with great success. They are well know to be difficult to keep alive if they are wild caught. I've also had wild caught discus thrive under my care. But tropheus, I find exteremly challenging and upsetting for the most part.

Originally Posted by ExReefer

I had some serious issues with a wild caught group not to long ago. All 24 of them died one by one. They stopped eating and it went downhill from there regardless of what I did to try to stop it. I used Metro, Epsom Salt, and even tried Kanamycin. I agree with this thread in that bloat is really an internal bacterial infection. I don't believe it is realated to parasites in any way. I also strongly believe that it can rarely be reversed which is very upsetting. Once a troph stops eating, it will typically die. I've never experienced anything like this in my 30 years of fishkeeping. I have even kept wild caught Altum Angelfish with great success. They are well know to be difficult to keep alive if they are wild caught. I've also had wild caught discus thrive under my care. But tropheus, I find exteremly challenging and upsetting for the most part.

Battling a similar bug right now. Got some Petros from a local guy. Treated with clout after I lost a few in qt. figured I was good and added them to my 180 with my bulombora and longola. One by one most of the new fish died, then the tropheus started dropping one by one. Treated so far with metro and clout with no improvement. Started kanamycin this week. Don't know where to go from here if this doesn't work. So far the longola have been ok, but this is spookiest, most resistant bug I've ever encountered. Lost 9 trophs so far...

[kitana]

Euthanize your 2 sickest fish, freeze one and put the other in formaline you will get from any regular veterinarian. Bring that to your veterinarian and ask for a culture-antibiogram on the frozen specimen, and histopathology on the formaline specimen. Be sure they send the samples to fish pathologists, and you are good to go. The sooner you get guidance the less fish you loose.

Good advice! I also treated with a round of praziquantel as well to no avail just to r/o parasites

[ExReefer]

I believe stress is the cause in every case of sick Tropheus (and most fish for that matter). While it might be great to know what kind of bacteria is killing the fish, the cause is likely stress and in most every case, it cannot be reversed once the fish has stopped eating. All we can do is keep our healthy fish under low stress conditions. I really think that is the key to keeping Trohpeus and most likely Petros as well. It's proably why all my fry that were born on site have remained healthy. The fish I've had problems were always ones that came from outside my home. The netting, transportation, and acclimating to a new environment is very stressful to fish and Tropheus don't do well with it.

[ExReefer]

I should add that we all know stress can come from aggression, poor water quality, and many other factors. I'm just saying that moving these fish into a new environment appears to be the most stressful. Even more so if the fish were truly wild caught.

If we had to rank stress factors, how would it go:
1) shipping/acclimation
2) aggression
3) poor water quality
4) ???

[Ogrodii]

great write up
definitely up there with tropheus bloat reads

[Mastiffman]

Originally Posted by swk

Battling a similar bug right now. Got some Petros from a local guy. Treated with clout after I lost a few in qt. figured I was good and added them to my 180 with my bulombora and longola. One by one most of the new fish died, then the tropheus started dropping one by one. Treated so far with metro and clout with no improvement. Started kanamycin this week. Don't know where to go from here if this doesn't work. So far the longola have been ok, but this is spookiest, most resistant bug I've ever encountered. Lost 9 trophs so far...

Originally Posted by kitana

Euthanize your 2 sickest fish, freeze one and put the other in formaline you will get from any regular veterinarian. Bring that to your veterinarian and ask for a culture-antibiogram on the frozen specimen, and histopathology on the formaline specimen. Be sure they send the samples to fish pathologists, and you are good to go. The sooner you get guidance the less fish you loose.

I have been wanting to get this exact thing done for w little while now. I even mentioned it in a Bloat thread. It's always been such an unknown illness that affects so many.

I just started keeping Wild Caught Fish this year and I to battle something that I can only opint towards being bacterial. I only lost one to bloat symptoms though. The others became Extremely Emaciated after only a couple of days. I'm talking boney heads and thin sickly looking bodies. There was a Total of 7 that I Lost out of about 84 Fish of 4 different Species. Only one tropheus had bloat like symptoms.

What I mainly that seems to have the greatest affect at first was Advanced Pharmaceutical Inc. (API) Pond Strength Pimafix. Which is an All Natural Indian Bay Tree Extract that treats body/ fin Fungal infections But Also treats Internal and External Becterial Infections. This honestly seem to hav the greatest Affect and basically stop the Deaths from happening. I also used this in conjuction with Seachems Kanaplex which has kanamycin sulfate in it and also treats Fungal and Bacterial Infections. These two did the trick for my 45 Kasanga, now 41. I was lucky that I knew what to treat it with after that, as Another WC Colony that I brought in I placed in the same QT tank and only lost 1 to this same sickness.

So Anyway, I so glad that someone took the initiative to accomplish this task and got a little confirmation started. I defintely think that the above recommendation for getting the Culture-Antibiogram and Histopathology on affected specimens is a great practice to start.

Thanks for the information and taking the time to let alone perform these tests, but also post the results and storyline behind it. I'm sure this shall give many Tropheus and Herbivore Loving Fish keppers great hope!

Andrew C.

P.S. Some have said that Pimafix and Melafix are poor in quality and function, but they have easily cured numerous illnesses quickly fro me and I will always continue their use in these cases when need be. I feel more Confident using them.

[jrogo]

Andrew is there a difference between the Pond Strength Pimafix and regular Pimafix.

Thanks
Joe

Originally Posted by Mastiffman

I have been wanting to get this exact thing done for w little while now. I even mentioned it in a Bloat thread. It's always been such an unknown illness that affects so many.

I just started keeping Wild Caught Fish this year and I to battle something that I can only opint towards being bacterial. I only lost one to bloat symptoms though. The others became Extremely Emaciated after only a couple of days. I'm talking boney heads and thin sickly looking bodies. There was a Total of 7 that I Lost out of about 84 Fish of 4 different Species. Only one tropheus had bloat like symptoms.

What I mainly that seems to have the greatest affect at first was Advanced Pharmaceutical Inc. (API) Pond Strength Pimafix. Which is an All Natural Indian Bay Tree Extract that treats body/ fin Fungal infections But Also treats Internal and External Becterial Infections. This honestly seem to hav the greatest Affect and basically stop the Deaths from happening. I also used this in conjuction with Seachems Kanaplex which has kanamycin sulfate in it and also treats Fungal and Bacterial Infections. These two did the trick for my 45 Kasanga, now 41. I was lucky that I knew what to treat it with after that, as Another WC Colony that I brought in I placed in the same QT tank and only lost 1 to this same sickness.

So Anyway, I so glad that someone took the initiative to accomplish this task and got a little confirmation started. I defintely think that the above recommendation for getting the Culture-Antibiogram and Histopathology on affected specimens is a great practice to start.

Thanks for the information and taking the time to let alone perform these tests, but also post the results and storyline behind it. I'm sure this shall give many Tropheus and Herbivore Loving Fish keppers great hope!

Andrew C.

P.S. Some have said that Pimafix and Melafix are poor in quality and function, but they have easily cured numerous illnesses quickly fro me and I will always continue their use in these cases when need be. I feel more Confident using them.

[m1ke715m]

Originally Posted by jrogo

Andrew is there a difference between the Pond Strength Pimafix and regular Pimafix.

Thanks
Joe

yes.. theres a difference.. also the extra strength melafix is different i overdosed with that once thinking it was the same but its 10x stronger