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Tropheus Disease, Health and Nutrition Discussion of Tropheus diseases, general health, nutrition and water conditions.

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  #1  
Old 01-01-2014
TroPhish
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Default Food for thought - The effect of a 30% NLS diet on Kasanga Red Rainbows

Hey guys, So I added some more fish to an existing colony and was blown away when I finally put them together and saw the effect that NLS had had on the older group.

Keep in mind, I understand that the newer fish are not as settled, but it is very clear that there is a complete color difference.

And its very clear that the color difference came from NLS.

In my opinion, it turned them the same color as an NLS pellet!

Anyway, I do like that it enhanced some of the reds, but even at only 30% of their diet, it is way too much and it washes out all the blues etc.

I will be trimming the NLS down to 15% of their diet. Or less if need be.

This should be a cool experiment now that I have some photos and dates and NLS feed rate data to work with.

First Photos are of the new stock. Not yet influenced by the NLS. Notice that beautiful blue in the face. These fish were pretty well settled in these first pics. I love the blue and If even a small amount of NLS makes that go away, I will end up removing it all together from the mix.







Next is two pics of some 30% NLS fed kasangas. Notice that it didnt take the yellow away. Its still clean yellow. Just all the blue in the face. I think this % of NLS would be great for Nkonde or Ilangi. Not for Kasanga.





Next is of the two groups together. Yes, The new group isnt fully settled because they havnt been in with their new tankmates but a few days. But those first pics above were of them after 20 days in the previous tank. Settled enough for a color comparison. Major difference in my opinion.

These pics of them together show it well.









.


Im sure that after a month of being fed the same thing, they will look the exadct same. However, Im glad to have seen them side by side as I can now make some sdjustments and dial back the rusty red NLS influence.

I will now be able to snap a pic once a week or so as they even out. As well as change thier diet and compare back to these photos t osee if Iv shifted them enough.

Im thinking 10-15% will have a positive effect. But I have no problem deleating it completely.

Now dont get me wrong, my fish breed really well on it. But Im sure that I can acieve the same results with Omega One only as the fat content is similar.

And according to this following review, http://www.oscarfish.com/4-star-food...-analysis.html the first ingredients are listed in order of % and by wet weight, but because spirulina is only available in dry form, it is listed in its dry weight. I'm thinking that would make it the #1 ingredient because the kelp will lose 80% of its weight from being dried in preparation to incorporate into the fish food. Anyway, that's how I think it reads to me. Correct me if I'm wrong. But I think that makes this #1 ingredient spirulina pellet based of ingredients dry weight.

Also, not many fish meals or kelp meals. Just Whole Kelp, spirulina, and whole fish.

Note: this is about a slightly different pellet. The floating. Not the sinking. However, It ingredients have the similarities in order of kelp spirulina etc that make it relevant. Meaning part of this review would apply to the sinking pellets.

Anyway..thanks for looking!

PS: I bet Sp. Red trophs would really look and breed well on NLS mix..and Petro bulus.

And put them under a monster ray LED...boom!
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  #2  
Old 01-01-2014
Vman
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Interesting. So is NLS giving off a red tinge?It definitely makes the poop red.
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  #3  
Old 01-01-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vman View Post
Interesting. So is NLS giving off a red tinge?It definitely makes the poop red.
Take a look at those pics and you tell me?! lol

NLS has Krill meal as its number one ingredient. And spirulina is much further down the list at ingredient #9. WOW

Also, because Krill meals,fish meal, etc are all listed in their dry weights, they are exactly where they are supposed to be in the ingredients list. And Spirulina is as well.

Even Beta Caratine is listed in front of Spirulina.

And even though fish oil would be listed in its wet weight, its position would be the same due to the oil not having the same evaporation/dhydration properties of other water based wet ingredients.

Now if you look at Omega One Super Kelp Sinking, It has about five great ingredients listed at the top and they are derived from whole sources making them very nutritious(from what I read).

Kelp is listed as the 1st ingredient, but it would be listed in its wet weight and spirulina is listed in its dry weight.

That would mean that after all the ingredients were dried in order to be incorporated into the food, Spirulina is the number one ingredient in Omega Ones Super Kelp Sinking pellet.

I was VERY impressed by their ingredients list when Rhickman showed it to me. Thanks Rick!

But now Im even more impressed to realize that Spirulina is the top ingredient in the food.

Keep in mind, I think NLS works great. I only brought this up so that keepers of some of the different types of tropheus could see that in some cases, NLS might not be a great choice because it can and will influence the appearance of your fish and you might not want that. Also, depending on the fish you keep, NLS might be something you would want the red enhancement from. Heck, you may like the NLS look on Kasangas. As you can see, It doesnt take much.

But, I also think more people should give the Omega One a look. Its Great! And at $11 a pound and a pellet size and an ingredients list that suits our fish well... Its a win!

I will continue to feed NLS at 5-15% to see if that does the trick and tones the red down.

If not, I will just feed pure Omega One as it has a great ingredients list, whole seafood based proteins, and a similar fat content...So Im sure the fish will breed just fine on it.

Thanks

Last edited by TroPhish; 01-01-2014 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 01-01-2014
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Trophish,

The kelp has to be dry weight so it is in fact the #1 ingredient by percentage of dry weight.

The high percentage of fat 10% and 9% concerns me. Yes I know it makes them breed well. A study done at the University of Florida revealed that P. Socolofi juveniles fed a diet containing 7.1% fat over a twelve week period had 27% to 29% of their liver covered with fatty deposits. Again this was juvenile fish still growing requiring a lot more energy than adults. This condition known as fatty liver condition is believed by most to shorten the fish's lifespan.

Has anyone here exclusively fed their Tropheus a diet containing 5% to 6% fat? If so please tell us how they did on it.

Many have told me I fed my Tropheus fed XYZ brand did great and bred like rabbits. How do you know they lived a full life?

For those not interested in running an aquatic puppy mill please work with me in trying to improve the diet of our beloved Tropheus.

My apologies TroPhish once I got started I couldn't stop.
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Old 01-01-2014
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Nice John!

Like I said too, NLS defintely will better for trophs that are based more in Reds, Oranges and Yellows. S ading a bit NLS might help an Ikola, Kariza, Ilangi, Nkonde, Linangu, Kipampa, etc. being the amount of carotenes. but Not really the Rainbows as a lot of the nice colors in Rainbow variants come form seeing the blues mixed in properly with greens, yellows and reds. it has to be an even balance between the Carotenes, Xanthophyls, and that Anasthaxin (sp?) chemical. Carotenes have almost come across as the most potent of the color enhancing compononts.

Clayn8,

I still think that the "type" of fat needs to be examined. Poly and Monounsaturated fats are good and found in many aquatic lifeforms. Is this what's being accounted for in the "fat" percentages listed on these foods? That's the main question I believe.

I highly doubt that the comercial foods in that study were designed with care, being made for "fish farmers". I believe the article even stated that the two commercial foods were for growth mainly.

Heck, If I recall correctly, a typical diet for an active adult allows upto 25-30% of the daily callories to be taken in from Good Fats as the body needs it to properly absorb essential Vitamins and Nutrients.
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  #6  
Old 01-01-2014
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Andrew,

For you my friend I will delve deeper into fat. That didn't sound good. lol

The study consisted of 50% fish oil and 50% vegetable oil.

The problem with the fish farmers in Florida is that they have one mash to fit all. Piscivores and Herbivores have very different nutritional needs. Some have converted it to a pellet form and sold a lot of it.

Clay
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Old 01-01-2014
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If 7.1% fat was too much for juvenile fish still growing then it would certainly be too much for an adult.

The only reference we have is humans which are omnivores.

Saturated Fat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturat...ecommendations
Recommends humans take in less than 10% daily energy intake.
Crude Menhaden Fish oil contains 30.4% saturated fat
Soybean oil contains 15.3% saturated fat


Monosaturated Fat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monouns...tion_to_health
Crude Menhaden Fish oil contains 26.7% monosaturated fat
Soybean oil contains 22.7% monosaturated fat

Polyunsaturated Fat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyunsaturated_fat
Crude Menhaden Fish oil contains 12.7% polyunsaturated fat
Soybean oil contains 4.7% polyunsaturated fat

Crude Menhaden Fish oil contains 28.1% Omega 3
Soybean oil contains 7% Omega 3

Crude Menhaden Fish oil contains 2.1% Omega 6
Soybean oil contains 50.3% Omega 6
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Old 01-02-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clayn8 View Post
Trophish,

The kelp has to be dry weight so it is in fact the #1 ingredient by percentage of dry weight.

The high percentage of fat 10% and 9% concerns me. Yes I know it makes them breed well. A study done at the University of Florida revealed that P. Socolofi juveniles fed a diet containing 7.1% fat over a twelve week period had 27% to 29% of their liver covered with fatty deposits. Again this was juvenile fish still growing requiring a lot more energy than adults. This condition known as fatty liver condition is believed by most to shorten the fish's lifespan.

Has anyone here exclusively fed their Tropheus a diet containing 5% to 6% fat? If so please tell us how they did on it.

Many have told me I fed my Tropheus fed XYZ brand did great and bred like rabbits. How do you know they lived a full life?

For those not interested in running an aquatic puppy mill please work with me in trying to improve the diet of our beloved Tropheus.

My apologies TroPhish once I got started I couldn't stop.

I just now noticed this and honestly, I take offense by this. I have been more than helpful. I have already told you I would allow you to feed your foods to my tropheus. I have told you what I would like the food to do for me. I have told you how much food it would require. I have told you that you can feed it to them exclusively.

I know, I for one have PMed you about these foods and various subjects pertaining to the improvement of the diet.

I'm sorry if all of our conversations didnt end with " ya know what? you're right, Clay. All of these foods out there EXCEPT for yours suck!"

And this was a thread about the color changing effects NLS had on Kasanga Red Rainbows....

Not another soap box for you to push your food.

Keep in mind, most of the GREAT researchers and educators I have known have never had anything they were trying to sell me.

In the future, So that you don't have to apologize for "not being able to stop once you get started".....

You need to tone it down.

John
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Old 01-02-2014
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John,

I think you have a great colony to beta test your thoughts on food selection and reaction(outcome). In my career Attention to details is a way of life, and you seem to be applying here in our love of Tropheus. I have done similar testing with various foods on some of my peacocks over the past year, and there is a huge difference in appearance in both males and females. Of course I have not been brave enough to try such a thing with my awesome RR's or Maswas F1's as they are doing very good and have more than doubled their sizes within 6 months. I look forward to some more awesome insight and pictures from you. We will talk soon ok.

from SUNNY FLA ,best regards

James
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Old 01-02-2014
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Are the photos of the new stock being taken from a different tank? Or are you saying the new and old stock are in the same tank now? I only ask because the lighting and background look different in the photos.
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