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Tropheus Disease, Health and Nutrition Discussion of Tropheus diseases, general health, nutrition and water conditions.

View Poll Results: with what did you feed your fish and bloat them?
slowly sinking granules - had bloat 1 3.85%
slowly sinking granules - hadn't bloat 6 23.08%
flakes - had bloat 7 26.92%
flakes - hadn't bloat 8 30.77%
pellets - had bloat 6 23.08%
pellets - hadn't bloat 6 23.08%
live food - frozen or not (shrimps, worms) - had bloat 2 7.69%
live food - frozen or not (shrimps, worms) - hadn't bloat 0 0%
my own "DIY" food (mix of vegetables, crustaceans, vitamins) - had bloat 0 0%
my own "DIY" food (mix of vegetables, crustaceans, vitamins) - hadn't bloat 1 3.85%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 07-10-2014
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Default bloat and food

I've seen many topics that address bloat ... fish were fed with flakes, in all ...
I organized this poll in order to identify some elements regarding food as a risk factor of bloat development. Please, tick the proper situation in your case to establish the prevalence of bloat, correlated with type of food.
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Old 07-10-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishdisease View Post
I've seen many topics that address bloat ... fish were fed with flakes, in all ...
I organized this poll in order to identify some elements regarding food as a risk factor of bloat development. Please, tick the proper situation in your case to establish the prevalence of bloat, correlated with type of food.
Very sorry about this I completely forgot your request for this poll. But glad you figured it out!

Bloat started mainly as referencing Malawi Bloat and is now more a catch all phrase for a symptom of an underlying issue. It can be caused from protozoa, Internal parasites (bad infestation of worms although not likely) and bacterial infections. Bacterial infections themselves can cause numerous things. Dropsy (can be start anywhere on the body), Abdominal Dropsy (mainly focused in the abdominal cavity causing ascites or build of fluid in the abdominal cavity between the abdominal lining and the organs) and kidney infections. Both Kidneys and Liver filter and purify the blood and body of toxins and waste products in a few ways while the kidney's regulate electrolytes and fluids. Both can be infected and if left untreated, the infection can spread to the other organs. The kidney infections are what causes Popeye (bulging of the eye's) but abdominal dropsy can supposedly also start with symptoms of swollen/ protruding eye's. While not to be confused with eye infections which will typically be a swollen/ protruding and cloudy eye(s) that can also show redness around the eye in advanced cases.

I still think that although stress can be the majority contributing factor to bloat, there are indeed numerous other and previously mentioned causes including an instant change in food. It can severely disrupt the digestive system and either cause the stress that induces effects from an attack of already present bacteria on a weaken immune system, protozoa or parasites or in yet unknown frequency of dry cavities in food that quickly ingested creating perfect breeding grounds for bacteria within the food and ultimately the digestive tract.

One thing that I have noticed is that while I had all of my fish on solely Ocean Nutrition: Formula Two Foods I had 100% no issues as it was such a moist pellet that with some firm pressure could be flattened into an almost disc shaped between your fingers. Once I added omega one pellets (as I just drop the pellets into the water) I started noticing slightly protruding eye's on 1 or two random fish. Which didn't seem to affect their spawning at all but did make a difference in their feces as well. The Ocean Nutrition: F2 never produced a visible and extending from the anus, waste product... (Sorry!? A bit graphic description ahead..) It was always just a soft release of stool that mostly dissolved within a few seconds after entering the water column. With the addition of Omega one and Dainchi Veggie FX and Veggie Deluxe I'm noticing more often "hanging" feces and more waste on the tank floor...

This is not to say that Omega One or Dainichi are bad foods. it was just an observation that I've made.

Last edited by Mastiffman; 07-10-2014 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 07-10-2014
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Andrew, indeed, all things are as you said. I know all these ... I am veterinarian, full professor at the Faculty of Veterinary Medicine Cluj-Napoca. I teach my students Fish Pathology and Parasitology.

I had the idea of this poll last week when four or five topics about bloat were active on the forum. Then I noticed that the fish were fed with flakes in all cases...but no slow sinking granules or others... so, the I wondered: is it possible that the flakes act as a risk factor favoring bloat? Is it possible that flakes will modify intestinal transit, local biochemistry or other parameters of digestion stimulating flagellates to grow excessively and causing bloat? In this discussion, I distinguish bloat from dropsy or another cause... I am referring strictly to bloat caused by flagellates.

So, it is important that members who had bloat to tick their answer for a good comparison between the type of food and the right conclusion.
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Old 07-10-2014
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I have not had any bloat instances for a long time now, however when I did have a bloat incident I was also feeding too much and I think the pellets I was using at the time were too big in my opinion. I have always fed Spirulina flakes with no issues along with NLS-Thera A. One thing that I did change and has helped at least in my own opinion is I will only feed pellets of 1mm in size and no bigger. I just feel like smaller pellets are easier on the fishes digestive tract, I could be wrong on this assumption but I have not had any problems since sticking with this size pellets.
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Old 07-10-2014
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Originally Posted by troph56 View Post
I have not had any bloat instances for a long time now, however when I did have a bloat incident I was also feeding too much and I think the pellets I was using at the time were too big in my opinion. I have always fed Spirulina flakes with no issues along with NLS-Thera A. One thing that I did change and has helped at least in my own opinion is I will only feed pellets of 1mm in size and no bigger. I just feel like smaller pellets are easier on the fishes digestive tract, I could be wrong on this assumption but I have not had any problems since sticking with this size pellets.
That's a good point and something I was thinking about.

I think that people have been using flakes for so long and not many are pellet users and that it can be a difficult transition for the owner to get used to.

You don't have to fed the pellets no where near as much as the flakes. The pellets are compact and dense and when looking at the amount that is fed of flakes compared to the amount of pellets, it may be deceiving. I have had fine success with medium (3-4mm) pellets of both Ocean Nutrition and Dainichi pellets.

It's a test and tune type of situation though. But it's always best to start off small and work your way up. Slow and Steady wins the race with Trophs for sure!

Flakes can although be messy if in smaller pieces and I've found larger pieces are easier for the fish to grab and will lesson the amount of missed pieces floating around that get sucked into the filtration ultimately causing poor water quality, faster.
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Old 07-14-2014
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Andrew,
Are you solely feeding Ocean Nutrition: Formula Two pellets or do you use something else also? I am currently using just spirulina flake and I am wondering if I should switch to or add something new.

Thanks
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Old 08-17-2014
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Originally Posted by MaswaKeeper View Post
Andrew,
Are you solely feeding Ocean Nutrition: Formula Two pellets or do you use something else also? I am currently using just spirulina flake and I am wondering if I should switch to or add something new.

Thanks
I don't even use Ocean Nutrition any longer.

I use 4 Different foods. Cobalt Spirulina Flake with probiotics (I can get it moderately cheap and easily accessed), Omega One Super Color Kelp sinking pellets, Dainichi Veggie FX and Veggie Deluxe.

I don't feed any treats or anything of that sort to the WC as of yet. I was feeding my F1 colonies a mix of occasional carrots apples and Fresh Baby Leaf Spinach. So I will try that soon... Most likely over the winter once I can focus on it a bit more.

The thing that I think is most important is getting the right healthy combination of food/ ingredients and sticking to it. Switching food If necessary, should be done Very slowly so as not to cause stress.

All living bodies need the right amount of vitamins and minerals in their diet for the proper function of internal processes. Without that they will eventually develop deficiency diseases. If you can get to the point where you are feeding at least a couple of foods with proper complimentary ingredients with some added fresh veggies of some sort you'll support the best health and longevity for any fish.

I do agree with Pam and the others that support multiple foods. Also in the aspect that many new tropheus fry owners want to start stuffing their new fish with food, even if it's good food, it's Still not a good idea. Slow and steady with trophs, IMO, is your best bet.
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Old 08-17-2014
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Andrew, do you make a mixture of all of your pellets and feed that every day? Or do you just grab a different jar each time you feed.

Has anybody used the new nls algeamax food? The numbers look good.
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Old 08-17-2014
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Originally Posted by 1971ls6 View Post
Andrew, do you make a mixture of all of your pellets and feed that every day? Or do you just grab a different jar each time you feed.

Has anybody used the new nls algeamax food? The numbers look good.
Good question.

I just measure and add the mix all together in one can and mix well. then also a quick shake each time I feed.
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Old 07-10-2014
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I have been using the 1mm pellets and flake for a few months now and really like it. Waste is down, trophs are happy = win, win situation. I switched over from the ON formula 2 pellets to the your fish stuff super veggie flake and pellets. Very happy with it!


Not sure what's up with all the bloat issues lately, knock on wood I have not had an issue since getting into Trophs almost 5 years now I think.. FWIW mine have all been F1s while I would love a group of WC F1s and their offspring are just fine!
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