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  #21  
Old 10-16-2014
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very nice im kinda having the same problem right now did the other fishes colors improve after you removed the dominant bully?
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  #22  
Old 10-17-2014
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Originally Posted by TroPhish View Post
Thank you, Pam.

Ya know, I used to have a lot more rocks in this tank and that has never been an issue with high numbers groups in the past, But with this group that was not the case.

In my experience, high numbers groups can pretty much be set up with lot of rock(or castles! lol ) or very little structure. The numbers alone keep the aggression down no matter the set up. But Iv found that small numbers groups have done best for me with a single rock or two to ground the dominant male.

Anyway, even with 55 adults, I had a hyper dominant male develop and he kept everyone balled up in one end of the tank.

Have you ever had that happen? WHat did you do to combat this issue?

He wasn't able to do any damage due to all the swarming numbers. Just ruled in terror.

Anyway, I ended up having to just remove him. And that helped. But they had developed a swim pattern "memory". Where they just stayed all balled up in one end. You can imagine 55 trophs in the last foot of a 6 foot tank. Very frustrating. Not to mention they were not very productive.

Have you ever had that happen? The ingrained swim pattern thing? How did you deal with it?


Anyway, I then had to remove some rock... and lastly I blocked light from that one end so that they were not drawn to it. And they have broken the pattern and now swim the entire tank with very little favoritism to that end.

I'm sure had I not broken the pattern, another male would have capitalized on the wide open space and another hyper dominant situation would have been created.

I know they are now much more pleasant to look at and seem to be much more calm and I'm really glad about that!

Anyway, just thought Id share my experience....Thanks for reading. Who knew I was going to be involved with behavioral management!

John
Mine seem to have been caught into the same scenario. Having just over 60 in a 240 and not knowing the ratio, I have started to wonder if I have too many in the group/tank? They are still going through the motions, but I have not had any hold lately. Curious if they know when enough is enough, almost like natural population control? I am torn from taking all the rock out for a few days or just revamping the tank which I have not done in awhile.. Would love some feedback!
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  #23  
Old 10-17-2014
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Originally Posted by JimA View Post
Mine seem to have been caught into the same scenario. Having just over 60 in a 240 and not knowing the ratio, I have started to wonder if I have too many in the group/tank? They are still going through the motions, but I have not had any hold lately. Curious if they know when enough is enough, almost like natural population control? I am torn from taking all the rock out for a few days or just revamping the tank which I have not done in awhile.. Would love some feedback!
My Moop tank is the same, I think they know when the group is at the right size.
It's actually a good thing in my case, as I don't care to be dealing with trying to sell fry.
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  #24  
Old 10-17-2014
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Originally Posted by Ogrodii View Post
very nice im kinda having the same problem right now did the other fishes colors improve after you removed the dominant bully?
Yep, They sure did.


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Originally Posted by noddy View Post
My Moop tank is the same, I think they know when the group is at the right size.
It's actually a good thing in my case, as I don't care to be dealing with trying to sell fry.
Yeah, in this case, The tank wasn't very harmonious to look at and it seemed way too stressful on the fish. Regardless of whether they produced well for me.... It just sucked to look at! and that was the problem I was trying to solve.
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  #25  
Old 10-17-2014
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Originally Posted by JimA View Post
Mine seem to have been caught into the same scenario. Having just over 60 in a 240 and not knowing the ratio, I have started to wonder if I have too many in the group/tank? They are still going through the motions, but I have not had any hold lately. Curious if they know when enough is enough, almost like natural population control? I am torn from taking all the rock out for a few days or just revamping the tank which I have not done in awhile.. Would love some feedback!
Hey Jim, In this case, I'm not sure if its a natural population control issue. I just had a hyper dominant male develop.

For me, This was more about stopping a negative swim pattern behavior than it was about increasing fry production. Of course, I'm sure they will also be more productive now that they are acting like normal tropheus again.

I think that the hyper dom male developed because of the way the tank is situated in the room.

It has an end that faces a doorway and when ever you enter the room or even walk by, that's where they first rush to for food.

Every time you walked by, they were constantly rushing to that end. I dont think it would have happened if the tank was situated where when you entered the room, you approached the tank from the front. Of course, A hyper male could have still developed, but I do feel that the tank orientation had a lot to do with it.

So I think that they developed this odd swim pattern, and a male capitalized on all the open space that was left at the other end. He then began to reinforce the behavior by bullying them all to stay crowded in that one end.

I started by trying to move some rocks but all that did was fire him up and he began to aggressively stake out and defend new territory.

Anyway, I really think it took all three things to break the pattern for me. All three were important. 1.Remove the male - It was never going to stop if that didn't happen. 2. Disrupt the rock layout to get them moving and searching for new territory. And 3. Block that end of all light and movement that could be seen by them so that they would not just continuously be drawn to that side.

For me that with lots of separate rock, I had lots of males trying to defend their own little world. Instead of just being dithers and swimming with the girls.

Or when the rocks were too close together, I had one male trying to rule the entire world.

I had hoped with the high numbers I would be able to have a lot of rock, but it just didn't pan out for me.

In the end, I had to go back to the old school layout.... a rock at each end.
It has always worked and its working again. I have a male at each end and the rest free swimming in the tank.... and it looks calm and flowing.


John
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  #26  
Old 10-17-2014
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John,

I have found that every group is little different, sometimes it can take longer for the group dynamic to fully form and few hobbyists have the patience to wait. And with wild fish it can be more difficult and it may never come to be, you can only hope to get a few spawns and start building a group from scratch before everyone gets killed off. I hate to remove a dominate male or a rouge female, but if there are fish that are beat up or up in the corners you have protect the group as a whole, or they will eventually kill off the entire tank. If not physically then mentally!

Having a big group 50+ Tropheus in a big tank, there should be less issues, it is going to be difficult for someone to get singled out, especially with a rocky/PVC/Castle scape going. With smaller groups it can be more difficult, and smaller groups are usually in smaller tanks. It might be a little more work, but certainly doable.

I never worry about ratio in large groups, extra males are often seen spawning, and it takes the heat off the females. In smaller tanks it can be more significant, but I would rather sacrifice a male then lose a precious female.

I have a couple 100 theories about rock/cover and what is best utilized in the tank! I wish I had the short answer but most often it is trial and error. Donít be afraid to shake them up, it you think too much time has gone by, then try something different. You can always put it back. If you watch your fish you should know who is getting trashed, who is chasing who, who has the best castle etc.

I just happen to collect aquarium castles, if I didnít have castles I would use rocks and PVC, flowerpots etc. I believe the more stuff in the tank the better, Castles have lots of places to hide, lots of surface area to grow algae so they can graze. I donít think the Tropheus know the difference between a castle or a rock. Its better looking then PVC and I enjoy it. ie it works for me!

Bottom line: I think everyone is looking for the bonded harmonious group! They are my favorites for sure!!
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  #27  
Old 10-18-2014
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Well Said Pam. You always a nice way of words....
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  #28  
Old 10-20-2014
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I just went and picked up my 25 kasanga and 15 maswa from the airport,all are doing good ! nice packing,good communication,looking foward to to getting more.
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  #29  
Old 10-21-2014
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Hey, Thanks Trophs4me!

Glad everything went well! You could give lessons on being a good customer!

Thanks for being pleasure to work with!

Ill be in touch soon when I have more fry.... And make sure you post video updates as they grow!

John
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  #30  
Old 10-25-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroPhish View Post
Hey, Thanks Trophs4me!

Glad everything went well! You could give lessons on being a good customer!

Thanks for being pleasure to work with!

Ill be in touch soon when I have more fry.... And make sure you post video updates as they grow!

John
They are doing great little pigs! I look foward to hearing from you .Thanks again!
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