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  #11  
Old 12-16-2013
TroPhish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam Chin View Post
Just couple comments.....

It is not the size of the tank, but the amount of water you change that makes your fish grow faster. For example if you have a Tropheus in a tea cup but you have fresh water flowing in, your fish will grow as fast as in a big tank.

There is no doubt that the fresh water is the major contributing factor. And that is often accomplished by growing fry out in larger tanks. Larger tanks can lend themselves to fresher water, longer, due to lesser stocking densities. But I would also think that the swimming room is of benefit as well. There is no doubt in my mind that a tropheus grown out in a 6ft tank is going to grow faster than a tropheus being grown out in a teacup...no matter how fresh you keep the water. But thats me. I guess ill have to run a line off the auto waterchanger over to a teacup grow out system and find out.

Tropheus are sexually mature at 12 to 18 months, regardless of their size.

Definatly know all about this. Just bred a 2.5 inch female. And she had 6 wigglers.

I would doubt that 3" Tropheus are truly wild, It would depend on your definition of wild, if you consider fish raised in ponds or vats at the lake wild, then maybe.

Does this apply for mostly the common stuff? As Iv seen a lot of Yungus and Mtoto brichardi brought in at 2.5-3in...and I didnt think they would have those in vat/pond production. I was thinking that applies to stuff more like Ikola that has a very high bulk demand.

And also, If a batch of "wild" trophs comes in mixed sizes with some at 2.75-3" and some at 4.5-5"...ya think Wild? or pond?


I think that 3 - 5 years would be a fair assessment to get close to the size of some wild fish. I don't feed my Tropheus like some do, and So it may take longer but personally I don't care if the don't get as large as some of these wild fish we see coming in.

Agreed

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Pam
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Originally Posted by SunnyHouTX View Post
I've seen some truly massive WC Tropheus that are old aged kept by local Houston hobbyists for many years but none of them were true 5" specimens. They do about 90% water changes with carbon filtered water. They were around 4.5" as measured on a ruler, but they were very thick and tall at the shoulders. I don't believe that there many true 5" Tropheus around as claimed by some over-enthusiastic hobbyists and importers. Just stating what I've seen in personal experience.

Iv got one around here that I now need to measure...Ill text you a pic...It might be 5. Its a hog!
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  #12  
Old 12-16-2013
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Originally Posted by Pam Chin View Post
I would doubt that 3" Tropheus are truly wild, It would depend on your definition of wild, if you consider fish raised in ponds or vats at the lake wild, then maybe.
Interesting. I would love to hear more about this. It does not seem fair to sell farm raised fish as wild caught. Can you provide some more detail on this? I thought wild caught always means taken directly from the lake. Why wouldn't they catch some wild fish that are 3" and not full grown yet? I would imagine they catch all sizes. Are they supposed to throw back the small ones instead of selling them?
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  #13  
Old 12-16-2013
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Originally Posted by TroPhish View Post

Iv got one around here that I now need to measure...Ill text you a pic...It might be 5. Its a hog!
Get it out of the tank and set it on a ruler to take the pic. That way, there's no doubt.
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  #14  
Old 12-17-2013
KhmerStyle
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This thread is very helpful since I'm trying to grow out some ikola fries I recently purchased. Btw what size do they usually stay to get color?
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Old 12-17-2013
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2.5" - 3" should see full coloration
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Old 12-17-2013
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2.5" - 3" should see full coloration
Thanks sunny
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  #17  
Old 12-17-2013
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One of my namansi reef that I raised from fry is pushing 4"+ and he's just a year old.
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  #18  
Old 12-17-2013
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Originally Posted by ExReefer View Post
Interesting. I would love to hear more about this. It does not seem fair to sell farm raised fish as wild caught. Can you provide some more detail on this? I thought wild caught always means taken directly from the lake. Why wouldn't they catch some wild fish that are 3" and not full grown yet? I would imagine they catch all sizes. Are they supposed to throw back the small ones instead of selling them?
Its simple math, you get more $$ for a fish when you say it is Wild or even F-1. This is why it is very important to do your research, you have to have a certain level of confindence in the person that is enabling your fish habit.

There is really no way to prove where your fish have come from unless you collect them yourself, and have a gps of the location.

Sadly farm/pond raised fish are sold as wild more often then you think, including large old breeders and not just from the Lake shore, some come from Florida and Asia.

Stating your fish are Wild seems to give people some kind of special status. I have seen many tank raised, pond raised Tropheus that have looked better then wild. They are from responsible breeders who took the time and effort to keep their strains clean and don't have a problem admiting to people their Tropheus are tank raised.

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  #19  
Old 12-20-2013
TroPhish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam Chin View Post

Stating your fish are Wild seems to give people some kind of special status. I have seen many tank raised, pond raised Tropheus that have looked better then wild. They are from responsible breeders who took the time and effort to keep their strains clean and don't have a problem admiting to people their Tropheus are tank raised.

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Pam
What does one do to keep their strains clean? What's the hard work input from the keeper to maintain a clean strain of fish?

Do you mean not ever mixing other troph variants in with them to prevent crossing?

As in only Red Rainbows ever allowed coming and going?

Or do you mean, within a closed genetic pool of lets say, rainbows, you are culling and refining for more desirable apearances...and by keepimg tje strain clean...you mean selective line breeding with no new blood from a different collection being allowed in? How long can that go on before you bottleneck your strain? And when you inevitably have to enter new blood...do you lose the strain?

Or do you mean a blend of the above two? Like only rainbows and cullimg of undesirable offspring, yet allowing new blood to enter tje strain as long as it is of equal look and quality?


Is it a closed tightly line bred bloodline or a genetically diverse varient that's also being selectively bred?

And if a person has a tank of fish. ..then later doubles the size of thw colony with fish from a different source...that look the same...and are now mixed... does he now not have a strain? Two? Resulting offspring?

Or is this a soap and water kinda thing?



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Last edited by TroPhish; 12-20-2013 at 10:49 AM.
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  #20  
Old 12-20-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TroPhish View Post
What does one do to keep their strains clean? What's the hard work input from the keeper to maintain a clean strain of fish?

Do you mean not ever mixing other troph variants in with them to prevent crossing?

As in only Red Rainbows ever allowed coming and going?

Or do you mean, within a closed genetic pool of lets say, rainbows, you are culling and refining for more desirable apearances...and by keepimg tje strain clean...you mean selective line breeding with no new blood from a different collection being allowed in? How long can that go on before you bottleneck your strain? And when you inevitably have to enter new blood...do you lose the strain?

Or do you mean a blend of the above two? Like only rainbows and cullimg of undesirable offspring, yet allowing new blood to enter tje strain as long as it is of equal look and quality?


Is it a closed tightly line bred bloodline or a genetically diverse varient that's also being selectively bred?

And if a person has a tank of fish. ..then later doubles the size of thw colony with fish from a different source...that look the same...and are now mixed... does he now not have a strain? Two? Resulting offspring?

Or is this a soap and water kinda thing?



Thanks
1. I always keep species only tanks, this is the only way to make sure your fish do not have genetic pollution. If you think your fish are not crossing then you are kidding yourself. And these water blowers that you have in your tanks are blowing sperm all around. Why even take a chance if you are serious about it?? Do you want to buy fish from a mixed tank of Tropheus?? I sure don’t.

2. Tropheus are sedentary – they don’t move around, they stay in the exact place they were born. When they become of age they join the giant group from that area. This had been proven by DNA analysis.

3. I think that hobbyist have a hard time comprehending how small the range of a particular variant is. Some areas can be measured in feet. They can’t leave their area it is dangerous out there! Tropheus are always found on rocks, it is very very rare to see a Tropheus on the sand, they would be eaten in a heart beat. It is Geographical barriers that prevent it, sandy areas, river beds, etc. Look at all the different moorii from the South East part of the lake.

4. The different variants were formed by the water levels of the lake. When the water goes down, more rocky areas are exposed, variants are on the move, then when the water goes back up they are cut off. This explains how we have similar species on both sides of the lake. And it took millions of years for this to happen.

5. Fish are not dogs!!! You do not have to worry about inbreeding. Especially with the mouthbrooders the gene pool is very large. If your group looks good then your fry will look good. Although rare the only thing I pull are deformed fish. And usually these are caused from being in the wrong position while being held. Each variant can have a range of different coloration. I am just breeding my group, like they would breed in the lake. I am not breeding for a certain band width, color, size or anything that would be considered “selective breeding”. Labidochromis caeruleus is the classic example of in breeding fish with nothing but good results. Until hobbyists started mucking it up by breeding in mixed species tanks.

6. I would be more apt to starting a new group then adding new stock to my established group. Too many times I have ordered a Tropheus and it was not what thought I was going to get. And if you add the said fish to your group, and then you realize they are off, you have just mucked up your group. If I am 99% sure they are exactly the same fish then maybe I would add them, but why, I already have a group??

I hope I have addressed all your great questions & comments John, if I haven't please let me know.

Cichlid Power!
Pam
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