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Old 12-01-2014
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Default Tropheus Moorii Tanzania Murago possible extinction

Some may have already seen this but it caught me by surprise when I read it today. See below link to Ad Konings article "The Demise of a Tanganyika cichlid":

http://www.cichlidae.com/section.php?id=279


Last edited by Todd_F; 12-01-2014 at 04:09 PM. Reason: spelling error
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Old 12-01-2014
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correct me if i'm wrong…did it say the estimate are only 500-1000 are left in the wild? wow, so with the fish imported here in the US and Europe i'm sure they are close to extinct in the wild…Sad but true and how can we help to stop or prevent it from happening? I think we already know the answer….
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Old 12-01-2014
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I think if you are going to be importing fish that are possibly this close to being wiped out in the wild it should be MANDATORY that you are also breeding them ! If your not then you are being irresponsible and contributing to a very horrible problem. This specific fish should actually be banned from collection and put on an endangered species list. And to importers that use the excuse that they will be collected anyway you are part of the problem so stop importing endangered species !

No profit is worth this kind of terrible news !
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Old 12-01-2014
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Default Demise Of A Tanganyika Cichlid - Tanzania Murago Tropheus

NOTE TO ALL: An article by Ad Konings worth reading for everybody is the fish hobby should read:

http://www.cichlidae.com/section.php?id=279[/quote]

I'd like to make a special request that:
1) Everyone read this and share this.
2) NOBODY purchase wild Tanzania Murago Tropheus.
3) Greg, would you please consider telling your importer that you will refuse this fish and share this article with him.
4) Also for Greg, please consider sharing this with your piers.

Thank you to Frank Meuller for catching this and sharing it on another forum.

Respectfully,
Russ

Last edited by Razzo; 12-01-2014 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 12-02-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMfrontosa View Post
correct me if i'm wrong…did it say the estimate are only 500-1000 are left in the wild? wow, so with the fish imported here in the US and Europe i'm sure they are close to extinct in the wild…Sad but true and how can we help to stop or prevent it from happening? I think we already know the answer….
GM,

it was 500 -1000 before they were raided. A few of us have been keeping track as they show up in the USA & Europe and I would say we are getting close to 400 that have been brought in, and that is just the ones we know about.

Very sad indeed….

Cichlid Power!
Pam
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Old 12-02-2014
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Ms Pam,

Are people there in Africa currently breeding this Tanzania Murago? Like i've seen that are being done with the taiwanee reef from Malawi?
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Old 12-02-2014
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First off I have brought this fish in one time and thats before I knew it was in such low numbers. I didnt say go collect this for me as some do, it was already sitting in Dar when I was putting my import together. Many will notice I started refusing wild Ilangi over a year ago with so much in question about population strengths and have no problem staying away from species in trouble. I would like to tell you this will fix it all, but it wont. For many of the species that are in trouble now you have to go back 20-30yrs before most of us were importing. The people cashing in on books, etc... now were the ones desimating the populations back then for profits, like duboisi for example. I try to be very responsible about what I bring in and like I had mentioned above havent brought a Ilangi in over a year or so and they have been on the list. A lot of the fish I ask them to go for are oddballs, fish that never get collected and I want here in the US, but its hard to get them to go after them because theres not a ton of money in them, but I think their cool and want all of us to exp. them. Like I said with this murago it came up as new and I imported it once, one time. I dont want to see any fish wiped out so now seeing that they are under such stress I have no interest in going after them. Something doesnt add up though, the article says one exporter is doing all the damage, but Alison and I both brought them in and we use different exporters and Laif had some too, so I dont think its one exporter raiding the area. My exporters follows the lakes rules to the T, gets the permits when needed and stays out of the park. For example I have people asking constantly for Sumbu shell comps, but my exporter already told me they expanded the park and that it overlapped their area so there will be no more of them coming. Im sure someone will collect ilegally, but not my guy. Anyone that has dealt directly with Africa and has the knowlege of what goes on over there knows we can stop bringing them here to the US, but it wont stop anything, just a sad truth in a poor country. I want no part of wiping them out so my one time having them for sale will be my last. I have them in a capable breeders hands and a deal worked out for the first 50 fry to get a colony going myself to make sure we have are own here to substain without puttign pressure on them there. Sometimes its tough with Africa you never know whats truely being pressured or just not seen because of conditions, crocs, etc..., but all we can do is when we do find out a species is under pressure to back off of it. Im a biologist at heart, not just some fish dealer with another job. I hope the world, all the other countries leaves them alone, but they wont and hopefully they wont start their oil drilling there and make this whole point worthless. As far as im concerned just liek the Ilangi they are off the menu, but hopefully we can get the ones to breed we have here and get populations going.
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Old 12-02-2014
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Maybe the rest of the world won't opt out on importing endangered species and I guess that is their call but it has to STOP. I think everyone should be checking import lists carefully and if you see that some fish are rare then forget it. We have other options and we need to be using them. I wish people in general would stop making such a big deal about wild caught fish, if available F1 fish are just as nice and in most circumstances you will not have all of the problems ascosiated with wild caught.

You just need to make a conscious decision that you will only purchase WC that are NOT ENDANGERED or RARE, it's really that simple ! Maybe if we think before we act we can help prevent some of these beautiful fish from disappearing. It can't always be about the best new thing enjoy what we have available to us without jeopardizing other species in the wild.
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Old 12-02-2014
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I love F1s, importing is more of a headache than you can imagine. As soon as I get my new place, been looking for awhile I will be breeding on a very lg scale, I love breeding and hate the nightmare that is importing. I have no problem bringing in 10 bxs of red rainbows, they all sale, its not about that. Its just a knowledge thing, when I hear a fish is in trouble I back off them. This murago thign happened pretty fast. Never in the US, saw them on a list at Dar, imported them once, one box and now their endangered. Its Africa that has to do a better job of controling their fisheries, but like we have all discussed its money, its Africa, they will go for oil soon and the whole lake will be lost. But im all for conservation, atleast what we can do here in the states a world away. No offense, but their risking their lives taking down rhinos, killing them for just horns, you think they will leave soem fish alone? We love them, to Africa they are just another resource, sad yes, but true.
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Old 12-02-2014
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I believe there to be a few main counting methods for wild populations of animals...

My question is what was the method used in this case as it's not described in the article.

I'm in no way condoning the collection of endangered species except for the purpose of repopulating them. But this tropheus wasn't even discovered until 2008. Is this because it's a newer species that is just starting to make it's own population?

Reason being is that there is, in fact, only one way to know a for sure number in any given populaiton of animals which is catch, count and release. Which I think in a case of fish wouldn't yield a definite accurate number anyhow. Maybe a bare minimum of sorts.

The other methods are simply not even an intelligent way of counting at all as I'm sure most know, or should know that science and it's values are no where near as linear as we humans like to quantify them as.
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