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Tropheus Species & Variants Discussion of Tropheus Species, Variants & Collection Points... including ID questions.

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Old 09-23-2011
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Default Tropheus red phoenix and red bishop

Are they both the same fish?

I know that they are both man made but want to know if there is an actual difference.
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Old 09-23-2011
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we had that discussion over here in Germany when they came but conclusion was that they're the same fish. at least nobody could tell a difference and from the groups i saw they all looked the same.
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Old 09-29-2013
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Old thread, but does anyone know what the Caramba is crossed with to create the Red Bishop/Pheonix? Is it a sp. Red Moliro?
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Old 09-29-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DireWolf View Post
Old thread, but does anyone know what the Caramba is crossed with to create the Red Bishop/Pheonix? Is it a sp. Red Moliro?
I thought that it was a Mutation? I could be wrong though...
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Old 09-29-2013
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Red bishop is a morph. Or mutation that was found in Caramba.

Similar to albinism.

Its a form of hypo melanism.

The fish does have to be bred to other carriers of the gene to produce offspring that display the phenotype.

So its not a hybrid.

Its pure caramba. Just like an albino human is pure human.

And Its not "Man Made". Just like the albino human isnt man made.

The mutation originally occurred naturally and was discovered.

But for that mutation to not be bred out and awy...it had to be helped by the selective breeding of gene carriers to carriers.

So not originally man made...but currently man assisted.

The same as any selective breeding.

John
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Old 09-29-2013
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The bishops happened genetically just like the development of those bemba sunsets that are being documented on this very forum!....

That's a play by play of how the bishop could have happened.

And not to get tooooo cray cray...but their mutation(albino kippli, red bisop, bemba sunset etc,) dosnt function or express itself the same as golden kiriza.

Kiriza shows varying degrees of yellow and has to be bred over multiple generations for enhancement and increase of that yellow color.

Red bishops and the albinos category of mutants are either off or on. they either show it fully or not at all.

And they too have to be selectively bred..but its not a ramp up and increase type of thing.

Its a been a gene carrier to a carrier and get the two to engage and thus express outwardly.

now that your confused...carry on!
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Old 09-30-2013
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So they are NOT a man made cross bred tropheus of Caramba and another Tropheus species. They are simply Caramba with this special red gene?
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Old 09-30-2013
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No, I do not believe them to be a cross bred multi variant/ species fish.

I believe them to be a genetic mutant of Caramba.

crosses would look very muddy or "mutt" like. showing a smeared mix of both parents.

The red bishop has a mutation that functions somewhat similar to albinism.

Now..with al that said....

I am basing it all off of my education, in hand expereince with other plants and animals, and my observation of these fish your asking about.

However, I wasnt in the red bishob lab when they were mixin' em up...

So only the person that discovered the mutant and/or bred it would know every detail.

But I bet Im spot on.

The bishop has amelanism..very similar to albinism.
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Old 09-30-2013
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Thanks for the info Trophish. Very interesting.
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Old 09-30-2013
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Don't amelanistic Animals show an increase of melanin, making them darker? If it is a melanin related mutation, I would think perhaps hypomelanism?

Could be wrong. Been a lot of years since I bred reptiles...
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