Home Forum Articles Sponsors Affiliates CP Map Chat FAQ TOS
Go Back   Trophs.com > Tropheus Forums > Tropheus Talk > Tropheus Reference

Notices

Tropheus Reference NEW Share and discuss news, studies and other scientific information.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-29-2008
Heather
Guest
 
::Profile::
Posts: n/a
Default

Very interesting (yet highly technical) research into the evolution of Tropheus and their DNA lineage ....


<div align="center"><a href="http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2148/7/137" target="_blank">Nuclear and mitochondrial data reveal different evolutionary processes
in the Lake Tanganyika cichlid genus Tropheus
</a></div>
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-29-2008
destinyends
Status: Offline
Senior Member
 
::Profile::
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Istanbul/Turkey
Posts: 177
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Thanks Heather,

but all I understood was "they migrate because of fluctuation of lake level and then they got into with local trophs where they headed and finally new hybrids occur" But which species of trophs were ORIGINAL?
__________________
20 Tropheus Katoto(soon)

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-06-2009
mikeyrgray
Status: Offline
Member
 
::Profile::
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Hedgesville, WV (Eastern Panhandle)
Age: 45
Posts: 41
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Very interesting read, can't say that I understood everything but I was able to comprehend some of it. It's exciting to know that these in depth studies are taking place, it's proof us addicts... errr hobbyists are being heard. Thanks for the link!!!
__________________
RiftLakeCichlids</span>
</span></span>

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-06-2009
billansor
Status: Offline
Senior Member
 
::Profile::
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Strasburg, Ohio
Age: 63
Posts: 1,318
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Send a message via Yahoo to billansor
Default

Did anyone pick up on the concept that the present six species catagories are not totally agreed with. That Ad Konings is looking at other classifications methodolgy such as structure and other non color type structuring for the basis of species identification?

I wonder how the so called global warming is going to affect lake level in ten years from now and also the polorization environmental conservations?

In the overall context of this highly scientific article, there almost are more questions to be answered that the study seemingly suprised the researchers.. The inbetween lines being read..

Very interesting..Thank you Heather

Bill
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-06-2009
dtscheung
Status: Offline
Senior Member
 
::Profile::
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hong Kong, China
Posts: 208
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Images: 6
Default

Thanks Heather.. interesting read!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-07-2009
gernot's Avatar
gernot
Status: Offline
Senior Member
 
::Profile::
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Frankfurt/Germany
Age: 46
Posts: 1,004
Thanks: 4
Thanked 42 Times in 35 Posts
Images: 164
Default

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(billansor @ Apr 6 2009, 08:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Quote:
Did anyone pick up on the concept that the present six species catagories are not totally agreed with. That Ad Konings is looking at other classifications methodolgy such as structure and other non color type structuring for the basis of species identification?
Bill[/b]
That's correct Bill, there are different theories circulating. Konings speaks of at 8 species within the Tropheus genus:

Tropheus sp. black
Tropheus sp. ikola
Tropheus annectens
Tropheus brichardi
Tropheus moorii
Tropheus duboisi
Tropheus mpimbwe
Tropheus sp. red. (Kachese, Chimba, red Ndole, Moliro usw.)

I have another study of Sturmbauer in pdf format. If the Admins tell me how to upload it i will post it here.

rgds
gernot
__________________
In this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-07-2009
asriel
Status: Offline
Senior Member
 
::Profile::
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London UK
Posts: 639
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

cool gonna search my bookmarks to see what i can add
__________________
peace love and unity
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-07-2009
Heather
Guest
 
::Profile::
Posts: n/a
Default

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(gernot @ Apr 7 2009, 02:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Quote:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(billansor @ Apr 6 2009, 08:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Quote:
Did anyone pick up on the concept that the present six species catagories are not totally agreed with. That Ad Konings is looking at other classifications methodolgy such as structure and other non color type structuring for the basis of species identification?
Bill[/b]
That's correct Bill, there are different theories circulating. Konings speaks of at 8 species within the Tropheus genus:

Tropheus sp. black
Tropheus sp. ikola
Tropheus annectens
Tropheus brichardi
Tropheus moorii
Tropheus duboisi
Tropheus mpimbwe
Tropheus sp. red. (Kachese, Chimba, red Ndole, Moliro usw.)

[/b][/quote]


I've read this as well........ can't get my head around dropping sp. polli and having a sp. ikola. They are a black species, so why not call them species black? LOL This is why I am not an expert....... :lol:



Quote:
I have another study of Sturmbauer in pdf format. If the Admins tell me how to upload it i will post it here.

rgds
gernot[/b]

That sounds great, looking forward to it

Sending you a PM..... it's fairly easy ^_^
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-07-2009
Longstocking's Avatar
Longstocking
Status: Offline
Senior Member
 
::Profile::
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Maryland
Keeping: Lupota, Moliro, Pemba, Ndole, Duboisi
Age: 40
Posts: 515
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Truth be told.... Scientists generally do not agree with Konings. Malawi.. Tang....

That is not saying he is right or wrong.
__________________
Sarah
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-17-2009
24Tropheus
Status: Offline
Senior Member
 
::Profile::
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK Sawbridgeworth Essex/Herts
Age: 55
Posts: 234
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I think the interesting part is there are 12 defined mitochondrial lineages but only 9 sampled in this study.
Hmm am I being dumb or does that mean there are (at least) 12 species?

4 Described species
Tropheus moorii Boulenger, 1898
Tropheus annectens Boulenger, 1900
Tropheus duboisi Marlier, 1959
Tropheus brichardi Nelissen & Thys Van Den Audenaerde, 1975


2 others described but considered by most to be part of one of the above
Tropheus polli Axelrod, 1977 considered a junior synonym of annectens
Tropheus moorii kasabae Nelissen, 1977 considered a junior synonym of moorii

4 more just given names but no formal description yet
sp. 'black'
sp. 'ikola'

sp. 'mpimbwe'

sp. 'red'
thus 4 that do not even have names yet? So these groupings are too large!


Though if you look at Aqualog: African Cichlids II, Tanganyika I Tropheus: Peter Schupke book you will find more lineages names and groups, it is just sad they may not match the mitochondrial lines.

(you know I would love to see the evidence that polli is the same as annectens it really does not seem justified to me just because they have the same number of anal spines and some other similarities does not mean they are the same species, though both Konings and Schulpke group them together)


Plus of the only 4 we have properly described we find duboisi is so different from the others it should be in its own group/genus!

Seems to me that there is a lot more work to be done.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
evolution, science

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:06 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.